last night at the Stirring, we talked about the KIND of church we want to become ...
it's so easy to become a Superman church, where the leaders become super pastors who do everything for everyone ... instead, we believe God is calling us to be an X-men church, where everyone shows up and lives their unique role as the church in the world ... not IN the church, but AS the church in the world ...
the word church means 'called out ones' ... so as a church, we are God's people, called out of the world to be God's hands and feet and voice to the world ... God fills us with Jesus so we can fill the world with Jesus ... in Ephesians 4, Paul describes this KIND of church ...
I'll never forget what happened 8 years ago ... I met God while working at Red Robin ... God called me out ... everything changed ... but instead of getting stuck in some church pew, God began using me at Red Robin ... I remember God teaching me to pray for people and how to encourage people ... as God was changing my life, God was using me to change the lives of those around me ...
and during that season, I realized something ... church is NOT a group of Christians who meet on Sundays ... church is when we live out the call on our lives to run into the world and put God on display in our lives ... when we are so filled with Jesus, that Jesus fills the world around us ...
hanging out in Red Robin, eating a Banzai Burger and those hot piping fries, enjoying life and calling others into this amazing God life ... that's church ...
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
10 comments:
Last night was awesome.. It's always what I've felt... Never saw it as the X-Man thing.. Kinda cheesy.... but it works..
I'm sure some will expect to be put on payroll haha....
is there a difference between "your roll" and the "minister" roll you were hitting on last night? What I mean is, you get paid/supported by the Church to do what you are doing...I think some might get confused...
I know we are all called to be ministers of the Gospel... but what goes beyond that?
thoughts?
great question ... I believe we all have a 'minister' calling ... I'm not a huge fan of the word 'minister,' but as followers of Jesus, we all have a calling to BE the church in the world ... to love and pray and encourage and speak and prophecy as Jesus did ... to be the flesh and blood of Jesus in the world, filling the earth with the presence of God ...
we are all ministers ... and yet God does call leaders ... who have a unique roll in the church to lead and equip and train God's people ... to prepare disciples to go into the world and put God on display through their lives ...
as for being paid, it can get confusing ... as Jesus and Paul and other leaders lived out their calling, there were men and women who gave financially to provide for them ... as they led God's people to become who God has called them to become ...
to me, it's a calling, NOT a job ... and that's what matters ...
Your probably hoping i don't chime in on this one!
I haven't told you, but I've been working on a book for the past 4-5 months with this idea at its core. I think I'm going to call the book "East Way", but i'm still open to other ideas.
You shouldn't of told me about Alan Hirsch's book. It seems as if he isn't a big fan of a paid clergy/pastorate either.
Thoughts?
p.s. You better come up with something better than the Jesus and Paul being supported by others line of thought, that still doesn't answer the problem with set salaries.
Love!
Nate,
that's awesome.... I believe that God has designed a system to provide for those that are "Equipping Leaders" Like you... and like Paul shares in 1Cor 9, him and others like him are entitled to such finances..
I don't mind the word minister... maybe the true meaning just needs to be put back in it...
Klein,
The NT clearly speaks on the principle that those that preach the gospel are entitled to "live from the Gospel" (Matt. 10:9-10; 1Cor. 9:14; 1 Tim. 5:17-18) But there isn't any other scripture that talks on a stated salary, only and rather, free will gifts.....
The only case in scripture of a "minister" recieving a fixed salary is in Judges 17... That wasn't a very positive situation though.....
don't know if that helps.... I'm sure you have dove into this though... haha, it's like I'm preaching to the choir...
I spent hours after the service Sunday night hangin with some emerging leaders and it was awesome to hear what God was stirring in them during that message! I LOVE HOW RIGHT ON TRACK YOU ARE WITH GODS DREAM FOR THE PEOPLE HE IS BRINGING TO US ON SUNDAY NIGHTS.
Juan,
Great point. The question is 'who is called to preach the gospel'? I would have to say everyone that calls upon the name of the Lord.
Also, 1 Cor 9:14 is a great verse that people use to back being paid, and yet they don't like to read 1 Cor 9:15.
Plus, Paul is using a corrolation with old testament priest and new testament leaders, which isn't really a good comparison. Since we are all called to be priests, i guess everyone is worth their wage.
Klein,
We are all called.... It's all over scripture... However...If we look all over in the NT from when Jesus himself appointed the apostles to when the apostles appointed "Deacons" and "overseers" which we learn from Peter that these are the same persons, and that there work is "pastoring". (Deacon in greek means "one who serves")
If we look in Acts how the apostles took what Jesus commanded to establish the "Church" and were guided through the Holy Spirit, appointed others to lead and so forth. Don't you think God had in mind to fund those that commit to this establishment? To me it's simple.... Some are witnesses to our Lord.. to me that isn't the same as someone devoted to the Church... We are all called and have to be devoted to scripture and Christ.. but not the Church, As far as it's operation and structure.. We are called to "be" the "Church" as for what "Church" is meant for.. but there are those that keep it together and that is where one is to be "provided" for their commitment...
Juan,
I understand your rationale, but I don't believe it holds up under the weight of Church history.
Paul and the apostles were funded when they went on trips, but it is believed that all of the apostles (not just Paul) had other jobs when they were in their home towns.
Today, the majority of the churches in the world (Most are in Asia and Africa), have no paid staff, and their numbers are increasing at an alarming rate, as the churches in the West are dwindling in size.
Leaders are needed though, i agree with your assessment of that
Klein,
I personally don't see the revolution with Africa and Asia having anything to do with...1.) an unpaid staff and 2.) the dwindling of Churches in the west....
I think there are bigger issues with "All" Churches that we need to keep in check than wondering if "ministers" should get paid or not....
I believe God puts it out there as a system for all of us to follow... If Paul and others worked on the side, that shouldn't exclude that God established a way to provide to those that serve the Church..and t certainly shouldn't mean they have to stick to "only" serving the Church.. Men and Women have the right to produce fruits from their labors.. right? So, if anyone serving the Church goes and builds a ship on the side, that to me doesn't define that "ministers" weren't intended to receive what Paul speaks that they are "entitled" to.
For me, I have a passion for worship.. I believe that some day God will place me in leadership to provide songs of praise to his people.... do I desire to get paid? No.... like Nate said.. it's a calling not a job.. Do I respect that God wants to bless in a form of "income".. yes I do... But I don't use that as the motive to why I want to live out my passion... I believe my income will come from my gift in art... that is why I've started a business... I hope to be serving the Church from my heart and giving to it, building it up... I have to believe that God is doing something bigger and If I'm paid because He wants me to be paid I have to humble my heart and receive that gift from the Lord..
Juan,
Send me over your email, i'll email you my next response because it might be a bit long winded.
late!
Post a Comment